That’s why the reps around race are so important, is that, because as you get more reps in about it, all of a sudden, other things start to become important that weren’t important, because now your brain is saying, “Oh, I need to read that. Menakem: Bodies of culture. A lot of new laws were passed that were revolutionary, in their way. I’m curious how you would trace, in the background of your childhood, in your earliest life, the seeds of this clarity about white fragility that you have really distinctly articulated for our world. Robin DiAngelo is the author of the White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard For White People To Talk About Racism. And what I’m saying is that that idea — just what you did, that piece right there — that’s where you have to start, and white people have to start with that, because — I say this all the time. It’s an important question to begin to deal with. It’s not like a fixed status. Menakem: Just watching you say that, this is why I talk the way that I talk, is because — so let me start with just a definition, first. OK? And what a perversion of the true direction of violence that we’ve been perpetrating, or in our name, for hundreds of years. Tippett: And we know the narrative — they fled. Menakem: So one of the things about the animal part of the body is that even though me and you are in this room — this nice place— there’s a part of the body that’s saying, “Yeah, but what else is gonna happen?” And the reason why — especially when I’m working with bodies of culture, one of the first things I have them do is orient; orient to the room, not orient in the mystical way but actually literally. And then a couple years later is when you start to see white persons show up in Virginia law. So I feel like those of us who lived through the ’60s — although I was a child, but still, it’s in my body, too — there was a lot of progress. Time decontextualizes trauma. It’s about allowing — the reason why we want to heal the trauma of racialization is that it thwarts the emergence. Either you are destroying this and looking to dismantle this thing that currently exists, and you’re working towards it and you’re working towards developing culture around it, or you’re either devout or complicit. All of that. That psoas is a beast, because the psoas, what it does is, it connects the top part of the body with the bottom part of the body. And as long as we define “racist” as the N-word and the white hood and the meanness, we’re not gonna see what we contribute to it daily. But you need to condition that. I was raised to just see myself as human. Tippett: And the Middle Ages — medieval torture chambers, which is another — those are two words that follow.
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